Ok shoot me down in flames anyone....

But I think it is a clear-cut case for no adjustment
that is EW 1460 for both sides

A wrong bid is not an infraction
and if the opponents are damaged as a consequence BAD LUCK
And, unlike when there has been a wrong explanation, you don't say anything has gone wrong to the opponents before thay lead

Ok you did have UI your partner thought you had no void
But I can't see any logical alternative in you taking out the double of 5D
Try polling other players; I doubt if any would even remotely consider leaving the double in

Nick

Thank you Nick, my only concern is as declarer, should I have disclosed that the reply from my partner was correct, but I made a mistake?

He said "no void" but I did have one...

This   hands affects the top 3 contestant in that series competition...so lots of unhappy players!

Cheers

Helene

The "double scoring something" was a split score !  E/W weren't denied anything. N/S simply got their bad board adjusted.

As a matter of interest. as this was a simple club session, what is the feeling on the 1S opening (known to be able to have as few as 7 points, although in this case it actually had 8) not being alerted - because if it should have been then we do have an infraction.

Law 40 says it all
but its nearly 3 pages to wade through

Law 40C2 is significant
no player is obliged to disclose to the opponents he has deviated from his announced methods

and that law makes no mention if the deviation was accidental or deliberate

As for opening 1S with 8 HCP 
that is a sound opening in my book (Rule of 20)
and if deemed to be otherwise it is NOT an infraction (subject to certain limitations on psychic bids outlined in 40C1

I believe for NS to be awarded anything better than -1460 is an unearned gift

Hi Brian,  I do believe that a club session is either "junior" or "open"...There is no mention of a "simple" session in the manual...that I can see.

Second, it is clearly stated in the manual "Classification of systems" that  (art. 24.6B)  " it is forbidden to open or overall hand that, by agreement, may contain fewer than 8 HCP..."

And, if I had psyched, it still would not matter ( as one can do), because my partner did not have a clue about my hand and assumed I had a legitimate opening.  Besides, I had an 4 loser hand and a void !  I felt it was too strong to open 3s.  

But that is not the point contested . The point here is my error in the bidding system...We must look at this with the laws.. .not emotions...as I think is what happened here..

Still, I am   curious to know how to deal with these situation in the future as I am the one instructing perspective director...I want to know.

No disrespect intended ,

Helene

Thank you Nick, this clarifies the laws for me.  My problem is that director decided to do a split scoring in our compass system and we are no sure that the compass can do that.  In any case, i find unfair that N gained 3% on his overall results due to that split scoring...

Kind Regards

Helene 

It may well be a sound opening to you Nick, but at the level of the players that were present at the session it would not have crossed the minds of 95% of them - that's why I was questioning the need to alert the bid as possibly containing < 8 points, and whether failure to do that would be an infraction (The alerting rules are a bit opaque at times). As it happens, my partner and I would open that hand 4S - alerted as either 8+, or 11+ cards in spades and another (7/4, 6/5), and less than opening points.

I agree with Helene that NS 3% gain is unfair to others
Say they won the competition by a margin of less than 3%
The pair(s) they beat have been robbed!

The reality is mistakes usually lead to a bad result
But on occasions when they don't the result stands
Like the golfer who slices the shot into the trees and it bounces off a branch and rolls into the hole

Also, on the subjest of that 1S opening
Can anyone refute the following assertion with a counter-example?

EVERYBODY would ALWAYS make the same call over RH Opponents 1S opening whether it was
[a] not alerted
or 
[b] alerted and explained as "natural but could be a freak hand with significantly fewer HCP than would normally be expected in an opening bid"

If that is the case what does the alert achieve?

Thank Nick, actually Murray agrees with it all.  He  will try to post on this forum his views about this. Hope he can. 

Thank you all

Helene  Labreche

EastCoast Bays BC