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COMPLETED CALLS

As a new director intending sit the exams later this year I was playing tonight and had a situation where my LHO reached 3NT partner passed and my RHO  drew a diagonal line completely across the square on the bidding pad but did not lift their pencil. They then advised they were going to change their call to 4C (ace asking). I advised that I was calling the director for a ruling if the change of the bid was legal. I advised that it was OK. Surely the call was completed and the decision to change the pass to a bid is a change of intention. After play I had discussions with other directors there was some disagreement whether it was legal or not.

It is my understanding that the pass was a completed call. Comments please as it help me with future directing.

 

Started by COLIN BRAY on 14 Feb 2019 at 11:25PM

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  1. NICK WHITTEN04 Mar 2019 at 06:20PM

     

    Hi Colin

    I was hoping a more qualified director than me would answer but that doesn't look like it is going to happen wink

    So here goes but I stand to be corrected


    I would say the pass is the only case where  "pen is still on the pad" has any relevance whatever
    Because it is difficult to define "completed" any other way
    Is 3/4 the way across the pad complete?
    Is 74% the way across the pad complete?
    and so on

    So I would rule, with the pen still on the pad, the pass is not complete and may be changed

    When I sat the Club Directors exam one question was "a player writes '1N'. Is that complete?"
    I said yes (as it is an incontrovertible intention to bid 1NT)
    But that was marked wrong

    So to write 1N and take pen off the pad is NOT complete
    To write 1H and NOT take the pen off the pad IS complete

    Thats how I see it but I would be interested to see other views

    cheers
    Nick

     

  2. GILES HANCOCK07 Mar 2019 at 04:59PM

    I agree with Nick, although I can't find affirmation in the Manual.   D54 is the place.

    The same regulation seems to apply to incomplete bids out of rotation - if a full bid has not been completed, the call is cancelled (with UI).

     

    Interesting extensions.  

    a) You write a single diagonal line, and lift your pencil, and pause.   You now wish to complete a double. 

    b) You are in the passout position and write a single diagonal line, and lift your pencil.   Can you change your Pass to say 4S, since you have not written a double line ?

     

    regards

     

     

     

  3. GILES HANCOCK07 Mar 2019 at 05:03PM

    Just another thought.

    If you write 1c, pause, and do NOT lift your pencil, can you continue and bid 1S ?   undecided

    Could you continue and bid 1d ?   tongue-out

     

     

     

  4. COLIN BRAY08 Mar 2019 at 02:47PM

    Hi Guys

    Thank you for taking time to give your opinions on what sometimes can be complex matter.

    In my comments above I mentioned the past line was drawn COMPLETELY across the box in fact the pencil was outside the box. There was no doubt in my mind that this person's intention was to pass but had a change of mind. I believe issue is covered 25A2 where it states "If the player's original intention was to make the call selected or voiced that call stands."

    Another scenario which is similar if we were using bidding boxes and the RHO reached into the bidding box and pulled out the pass card and hovered it just above the tablet and then no I am going to change that put the pass card back in the box and pulled out the 4C card. Would you allow this action ???

    If NO then I can not see any difference between the pads and boxes in regards to the law as the original intention was to pass.

    Any senior directors want to respond. 

  5. COLIN BRAY08 Mar 2019 at 03:38PM

    One last comment I not find anything in the Laws that says if you do not take your pencil off the pad you can change your call.

  6. NICK WHITTEN09 Mar 2019 at 10:15AM

     

    When I pass I always write /
    When I double I always write first then cross it with a /

    So if I were to start a double and change my mind after having written I would expect to be allowed to change it even with my pen off the pad

    But if I were to write / and take pen off the pad I would not expect to be allowed to change it because I couldn't honestly claim it was an incomplete double

    Also I believe / with the pen off the pad should always be ruled as a complete pass even if it would be the final pass requiring two /s
    Many players don't bother with a second / for the final pass

  7. NICK WHITTEN09 Mar 2019 at 10:17AM

     

    oops
    missing backslash

    should be

    "When I double I always write  first then cross it with a /"

  8. NICK WHITTEN09 Mar 2019 at 10:20AM

    oops again NOT my fault

    This stupid machine doesn't print a backslash (or this stupid operator doesn't know how to)

    should be

    "When I double I always write a backslash first then cross it with a forward slash"

  9. COLIN BRAY09 Mar 2019 at 12:02PM

    Hi Nick

    Last night had a discussion with Patrick the director at Auckland Bridge Club and he advised that if the intention was to pass then call stands irrespective of whether the pencil was still on the bidding pad. Even if you write 2H and leave the pencil on the pad that bid stands.

    Let's get rid of the fallacy if you leave your pencil on the pad you can change your call.

     

  10. COLIN BRAY09 Mar 2019 at 12:22PM

    Hi Nick

    Last night had a discussion with Patrick the director at Auckland Bridge Club and he advised that if the intention was to pass then call stands irrespective of whether the pencil was still on the bidding pad. Even if you write 2H and leave the pencil on the pad that bid stands.

    Let's get rid of the fallacy if you leave your pencil on the pad you can change your call.

     

  11. Dougal WATSON02 Apr 2019 at 04:37PM

    Interesting thoughts and reasoning. I'm a very new director but would probably have considered the pen-still-on-the-paper element as being irrelevant. The issue would be resolved, case-by-case, depending on the actions and circumstances in play at the time ... and the intention of the persone writing that diagonal line would be one aspect of that decision.

    I had an opponent almost write 1NT during Congress last year. While there was no ambiguity about what they were in the process of writing they did not complete the bid. The ruling ... which I am not entirely comfortabe with ... was that the bid had not been completed and so could be 'changed' to something else. The Director also commented that "That's how it plays in NZ, but in Australia they'd not have been able to change it".

  12. COLIN BRAY02 Apr 2019 at 05:12PM

    Thanks Dougal

    It seems in NZ if the number and letter are not complete then the bid can be changed. The issue I originally started with was the director allowed a change of call because the pencil was still on the pad despite the fact that diagonal pass line went from corner to corner of the box on the pad. The players original intention was to pass which is where the Australia ruling takes over because the players intention was to bid 1NT.

    The players intention is what counts not the fact that pencil was left on the pad.

  13. Ant Hopkins17 Feb 2020 at 03:15PM

    A question on a related subject.

    East opened, I passed, West bid and my partner North passed.  Shortly after my partner's pass, he released he was looking at cards from the previous board rather than the current board.  Does his Pass stand?  After looking at his correct cards, he wanted to bid.  The Director ruled he had passed and the hand was played in West's contract (which turned out to be an excecllent board for us, which was a stroke of luck rather than judement).

     

     

  14. Brad Johnston17 Feb 2020 at 03:57PM

    Hi Ant,

    I think you've done a bloody good job of obfuscating this question.

    This seems to be the auction that you're stating as happened

    North East South West
    - 1X Pass 1Y
    Pass! Pass Pass  


    Where after North's pass they realised they were holding the previous board's cards.

    Why did East pass 1Y by West?

    But that's all moot; let's look at the laws (these are freely available under Resources -> Directing -> 2017 Laws.

    LAW 15 - WRONG BOARD OR HAND
    A. Cards from Wrong Board
    1. A call is cancelled (together with any subsequent call) if it is made by a player holding cards that he has picked up from a wrong board.
    2. (a) If the offender’s partner has subsequently called, the Director shall award an adjusted score.
    (b) Otherwise, after looking at the correct hand the offender calls again and the auction continues normally from that point.
    (c) Law 16C applies to any call withdrawn or cancelled.
    3. If the offender subsequently repeats his call on the board from which he mistakenly drew his cards the Director may allow that board to be played normally, but the Director shall award an adjusted score when offender’s call differs from his original cancelled call.
    4. A procedural penalty (Law 90) may be assessed in addition to the rectifications above.

     

    This clearly states that North's pass is cancelable; because he didn't have an appeciable bridge reason for this pass - and forcing it to stand wouldn't be equitable to anyone at the table.

  15. COLIN BRAY17 Feb 2020 at 04:33PM

    wow this topic certainly took on new life

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